Ah, I love Flagstaff so much, was just up there (too) briefly last weekend, and the vibe you describe is true.
I also loved this line - "You can feel the ground beneath you slipping, and you just go along with it until you’re under a car or in a muddy road, where it makes that suction sound when you try to walk." Going along with bad ideas feels exactly like that. You turning Richard into Zsa-Zsa doesn't seem like a bad idea though
The amount of truth in 9 paragraphs is substantial enough to count as advice. With one suggestion. At the end of your post, insert a "=====" line before the subscription pitch. I kept reading as if that was part of the essay. Charmingly so!
I can picture you walking the streets of a rough-and-ready Flagstaff with your backpack. As someone who's been married for fifty-plus years, finding my own unique identity has always been like fighting my way out of a paper bag. Frustrating, but so worth it. I continue to punch at the sides.
Ah, how I resonate with this. I never wanted to be married either but just celebrated 40 years with my husband. My initial reason for doing so was because I was a med student in Boston when my (then) 7 month-long boyfriend went off to Philly for his internship and residency. I knew that there was too much potential for me drifting into the arms of someone else on those long nights on-call so I asked if he was interested in legalizing things. He didn't hesitate for a moment and here we are. I think of these long relationships like planting a fruit tree. For years and years, it's just regular old foliage plus the odd year of leaf scab or root rot of some sort. But then, decades pass and you are picking the most luscious fruit of a unique and deleriously delicious flavor. You don't need a piece of paper to let you do that but it doesn't hurt the enterprise either. I confess that I wanted my own daughters to be free and unencumbered but one married herself off and the other is well on her way. My deferred, vicarious "That Girl" dreams of living in the city wearing great clothes with a nice boyfriend on no discernable income have been put to rest for good. Mazel Tov, Laurie! The water is actually fine.
Having spent quite a bit of time in Arizona, I could see all of this. My partner and I talk about getting married occasionally when we’re both over 65 for the same reasons. But we can’t now because my insurance would be too much. Crazy world and getting crazier.
I did just what you’re contemplating for the same reasons but never say I’m married or call T my husband. Not for society but because I vowed in my teens I would never marry and never have, until SS came up and I didn’t get much and T got so much more. I never married and never will because money doesn’t rank in all that. XX
ha!—the notion of richard being anything like zsa zsa gabor! if y'all do tie the knot pls make it a party, i'm angling for an invite. once upon a time i too went to flagstaff, for an overnighter to see a friend. we stayed in the shittiest motel cuz we were poor, and i was kinda skeered. but the next day, we woke up to glorious weather and had a big lovely breakfast. always felt i didn't give flagstaff proper attention but you know, life moves quickly and you forget to do so much.
Thanks for being an open book, Laurie. You don't have to prove anything to anybody. If you want to get married and Richard wants to get married, you go for it!
We moved to Arizona in 1989. Lived in Yuma, Tucson, Prescott and Prescott Valley. It's a beautiful state. Both of our sons went to NAU in Flagstaff. My introduction to Arizona was through Zane Grey novels as a high school student in Michigan. My next door neighbor had the whole set and let me read them.
We moved back to Michigan two years ago to be near family. I miss the sunshine of Arizona, but Michigan and the 4 seasons, and Midwestern people feel like home.
The ground slipping beneath you and not objecting! I did that at 18 and it took 31 years to disentangle -- so much just going along with it!
It made me determined not to do it again, but I did -- for our own complex reasons, but those words... I hate to refer to someone I love as 'my husband' or being referred to as 'wife' -- but this time we are making 'marriage' up as we go along rather than letting the slippery ground swallow us. Bon courage!
Also made me long to visit Flagstaff -- where a dear friend lives -- a long way from rural France, but one day!
"I don’t like the words: husband, wife, married, single, divorced, Miss, or Mrs." You've nailed why I've resisted getting married, despite being in love with the same man for 38 years. I wonder whether we'll eventually cave for the same pragmatic reasons you mention, to neaten things up.
My children’s father ended up in AZ. So that’s where I sent them for college. My eldest in Flagstaff at No Arizona U. The other at AZ State in Tempe. When I took them out there I stayed and traveled around camping at Navajo and Apache reservations. It was pretty interesting. Their college experience was a bit fraught. I’m an east coast girl at heart. I felt out of sorts in AZ.
"crazy small gestures." Richard Howard blew me off the one time I spoke to him. For a minute or two, I took it personally. Then I took it as a sign I'd have to improve my conversation chops.
On the second try (for me and my spouse), marriage is working out swimmingly ... so far.
Ah, I love Flagstaff so much, was just up there (too) briefly last weekend, and the vibe you describe is true.
I also loved this line - "You can feel the ground beneath you slipping, and you just go along with it until you’re under a car or in a muddy road, where it makes that suction sound when you try to walk." Going along with bad ideas feels exactly like that. You turning Richard into Zsa-Zsa doesn't seem like a bad idea though
Agreed! xxL
The amount of truth in 9 paragraphs is substantial enough to count as advice. With one suggestion. At the end of your post, insert a "=====" line before the subscription pitch. I kept reading as if that was part of the essay. Charmingly so!
Good idea! I will now. xxL
I can picture you walking the streets of a rough-and-ready Flagstaff with your backpack. As someone who's been married for fifty-plus years, finding my own unique identity has always been like fighting my way out of a paper bag. Frustrating, but so worth it. I continue to punch at the sides.
Ah, how I resonate with this. I never wanted to be married either but just celebrated 40 years with my husband. My initial reason for doing so was because I was a med student in Boston when my (then) 7 month-long boyfriend went off to Philly for his internship and residency. I knew that there was too much potential for me drifting into the arms of someone else on those long nights on-call so I asked if he was interested in legalizing things. He didn't hesitate for a moment and here we are. I think of these long relationships like planting a fruit tree. For years and years, it's just regular old foliage plus the odd year of leaf scab or root rot of some sort. But then, decades pass and you are picking the most luscious fruit of a unique and deleriously delicious flavor. You don't need a piece of paper to let you do that but it doesn't hurt the enterprise either. I confess that I wanted my own daughters to be free and unencumbered but one married herself off and the other is well on her way. My deferred, vicarious "That Girl" dreams of living in the city wearing great clothes with a nice boyfriend on no discernable income have been put to rest for good. Mazel Tov, Laurie! The water is actually fine.
Loved "That Girl!"
Having spent quite a bit of time in Arizona, I could see all of this. My partner and I talk about getting married occasionally when we’re both over 65 for the same reasons. But we can’t now because my insurance would be too much. Crazy world and getting crazier.
I think you will be able to handle being married to Zha-Zha. We have to work the system however we can to take care of ourselves as we age.
Yup!
I suppose I’m working my way to ZsaZsa-dom, since I’m on my third marriage, albeit one that’s lasted more than 33 years. There could be worse things!
Indeed!
I did just what you’re contemplating for the same reasons but never say I’m married or call T my husband. Not for society but because I vowed in my teens I would never marry and never have, until SS came up and I didn’t get much and T got so much more. I never married and never will because money doesn’t rank in all that. XX
ha!—the notion of richard being anything like zsa zsa gabor! if y'all do tie the knot pls make it a party, i'm angling for an invite. once upon a time i too went to flagstaff, for an overnighter to see a friend. we stayed in the shittiest motel cuz we were poor, and i was kinda skeered. but the next day, we woke up to glorious weather and had a big lovely breakfast. always felt i didn't give flagstaff proper attention but you know, life moves quickly and you forget to do so much.
So radical for a woman to choose herself. 👌🏼
I was raised that way, so thanks mom and dad. xxL
Thanks for being an open book, Laurie. You don't have to prove anything to anybody. If you want to get married and Richard wants to get married, you go for it!
We moved to Arizona in 1989. Lived in Yuma, Tucson, Prescott and Prescott Valley. It's a beautiful state. Both of our sons went to NAU in Flagstaff. My introduction to Arizona was through Zane Grey novels as a high school student in Michigan. My next door neighbor had the whole set and let me read them.
We moved back to Michigan two years ago to be near family. I miss the sunshine of Arizona, but Michigan and the 4 seasons, and Midwestern people feel like home.
The ground slipping beneath you and not objecting! I did that at 18 and it took 31 years to disentangle -- so much just going along with it!
It made me determined not to do it again, but I did -- for our own complex reasons, but those words... I hate to refer to someone I love as 'my husband' or being referred to as 'wife' -- but this time we are making 'marriage' up as we go along rather than letting the slippery ground swallow us. Bon courage!
Also made me long to visit Flagstaff -- where a dear friend lives -- a long way from rural France, but one day!
"It’s well known shrinks have more Neanderthal DNA than any other professional group." 😍
I know that bus. I mean not THAT bus. But yeah, that bus. I'd go so far as to say, if you don't, you've not really lived fully yet.
"I don’t like the words: husband, wife, married, single, divorced, Miss, or Mrs." You've nailed why I've resisted getting married, despite being in love with the same man for 38 years. I wonder whether we'll eventually cave for the same pragmatic reasons you mention, to neaten things up.
My children’s father ended up in AZ. So that’s where I sent them for college. My eldest in Flagstaff at No Arizona U. The other at AZ State in Tempe. When I took them out there I stayed and traveled around camping at Navajo and Apache reservations. It was pretty interesting. Their college experience was a bit fraught. I’m an east coast girl at heart. I felt out of sorts in AZ.
"crazy small gestures." Richard Howard blew me off the one time I spoke to him. For a minute or two, I took it personally. Then I took it as a sign I'd have to improve my conversation chops.
On the second try (for me and my spouse), marriage is working out swimmingly ... so far.